Comments on: Friend’s Homecoming http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/ Stories of extraordinary every-day women, stay-at-home moms (SAHMs), and adoptive parents. Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:07:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Meredith Efken http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-308 Meredith Efken Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:37:46 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-308 Hi Peacedancer, I'm the moderator! :) And your comment DID get approved. Look up above between Catherine and Beachmom. I have this blog set so that the first time each person posts a comment, I have to approve it. After that, you can comment without moderation. So that's why your second comment here posted without my having to approve it. Thanks so much for your comments. Please feel free to continue posting! Meredith Hi Peacedancer,

I’m the moderator! :) And your comment DID get approved. Look up above between Catherine and Beachmom.

I have this blog set so that the first time each person posts a comment, I have to approve it. After that, you can comment without moderation. So that’s why your second comment here posted without my having to approve it.

Thanks so much for your comments. Please feel free to continue posting!

Meredith

]]> By: peacedancer http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-307 peacedancer Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:34:30 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-307 Meredith Efken: I posted a respectful reply to mmomm2 however the moderators have chosen to not allow it to be posted. Meredith Efken:

I posted a respectful reply to mmomm2 however the moderators have chosen to not allow it to be posted.

]]> By: Katie http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-304 Katie Sun, 17 Sep 2006 03:59:10 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-304 I believe our country has every right to protect and defend itself from threats and attacks. And, the President has that same right,after open honest discussions with the Congress. That said, the current war in Iraq was wrong from the start. It never should have been undertaken. The reasons for attacking Iraq have changed at least four times since the beginning. The administration campaign to change the Middle East has less to do with democracy than it does about oil- gaining access to it and keeping it flowing our way. All other reasons given by the administration are secondary. The iraq war is seperate from the "The War on terror". This administration never expressed concern about growing violence in the Middle East, they never planned for any possible attack on US soil even though attempts had been made in the pass on US military interests and the World Trade Center and worse, even after they had been warned about Bin laden's planning of an attack, they ignored the threat. The War on Terror has become a convenient excuse to cover up and contiune with the mess in Iraq and now again, in Afghanistan. It is a lie to say we are fighting the terrorists over their so they don't attack us here. That statement might work if all the terrorists were acutally issolated and cornered in Iraq, which is absolutely not the case. Unfortunately, these terrorists are all over the world.We have been lucky so far, but it takes years to plan attacks the magnatude of 9/11. the terrorist's numbers have increased and they have come together and grown in numbers partly because of President Bush's actions and threats. Catching these terrorists is more a job of intelligence gathering, CIA and police work and survallience and less about boots on the ground. So, getting back to my feelings about Iraq. This is an immoral war and I am opposed to it. We need to wrap this up. leaving only the troops necessary to continuing training the Iraq's and some of our special forces, and allow the Iraq's to run and defend their country. They have their soldiers 90% trained, they have their government and they have experienced the thrill of voting for their new government. We now need to allow Iraq to stand up alone and take their first steps to independence. We certainly don't need to remain their while they fight among themselves in what most certainly seems to be a civil war. I don't recall foreign countries interfering during our Civil War. I believe our country has every right to protect and defend itself from threats and attacks. And, the President has that same right,after open honest discussions with the Congress. That said, the current war in Iraq was wrong from the start. It never should have been undertaken. The reasons for attacking Iraq have changed at least four times since the beginning. The administration campaign to change the Middle East has less to do with democracy than it does about oil- gaining access to it and keeping it flowing our way. All other reasons given by the administration are secondary. The iraq war is seperate from the “The War on terror”.
This administration never expressed concern about growing violence in the Middle East, they never planned for any possible attack on US soil even though attempts had been made in the pass on US military interests and the World Trade Center and worse, even after they had been warned about Bin laden’s planning of an attack, they ignored the threat. The War on Terror has become a convenient excuse to cover up and contiune with the mess in Iraq and now again, in Afghanistan. It is a lie to say we are fighting the terrorists over their so they don’t attack us here. That statement might work if all the terrorists were acutally issolated and cornered in Iraq, which is absolutely not the case. Unfortunately, these terrorists are all over the world.We have been lucky so far, but it takes years to plan attacks the magnatude of 9/11. the terrorist’s numbers have increased and they have come together and grown in numbers partly because of President Bush’s actions and threats.
Catching these terrorists is more a job of intelligence gathering, CIA and police work and survallience and less about boots on the ground.
So, getting back to my feelings about Iraq. This is an immoral war and I am opposed to it. We need to wrap this up. leaving only the troops necessary to continuing training the Iraq’s and some of our special forces, and allow the Iraq’s to run and defend their country. They have their soldiers 90% trained, they have their government and they have experienced the thrill of voting for their new government. We now need to allow Iraq to stand up alone and take their first steps to independence. We certainly don’t need to remain their while they fight among themselves in what most certainly seems to be a civil war. I don’t recall foreign countries interfering during our Civil War.

]]> By: Blue Dot http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-303 Blue Dot Sun, 17 Sep 2006 02:57:50 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-303 Meredith, You are not alone in your feelings. The American people were lied to by the Bush Administration to gain support for their illegal and immoral war. This war has sadly never been about helping the Iraqi people or spreading "freedom" (despite the best intentions of the brave men and women in our military). From the beginning, this war has been a badly bumbled attempt to fulfill a plan the NeoCons have been developing for many years. Instead of bringing to justice the people who attacked us on 09/11/01 (namely Osama bin Laden), we took our eye off the ball in Afghanistan and invaded a country that had not provoked us in any way. Now, the Taliban is making a resurgence in Afghanistan, and a theocracy aligned with Iran is blossoming in Iraq. It makes me sad that after three years of killing, dying and evidence of state sponsored torture, many good folks still believe the lies that the Bush Administration and FOX News utter on daily basis. I want to feel proud to be an American again. I want my country back. Please continue to speak out Meredith - as George Orwell once said: "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." Meredith,

You are not alone in your feelings. The American people were lied to by the Bush Administration to gain support for their illegal and immoral war. This war has sadly never been about helping the Iraqi people or spreading “freedom” (despite the best intentions of the brave men and women in our military). From the beginning, this war has been a badly bumbled attempt to fulfill a plan the NeoCons have been developing for many years.

Instead of bringing to justice the people who attacked us on 09/11/01 (namely Osama bin Laden), we took our eye off the ball in Afghanistan and invaded a country that had not provoked us in any way. Now, the Taliban is making a resurgence in Afghanistan, and a theocracy aligned with Iran is blossoming in Iraq.

It makes me sad that after three years of killing, dying and evidence of state sponsored torture, many good folks still believe the lies that the Bush Administration and FOX News utter on daily basis. I want to feel proud to be an American again. I want my country back.

Please continue to speak out Meredith - as George Orwell once said: “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

]]> By: Meredith Efken http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-302 Meredith Efken Sun, 17 Sep 2006 02:38:54 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-302 Thank you, all of you, who have left comments about this post. Whether or not you agree with me, I value you and appreciate your interaction here. I think it's really important that we discuss these things, even though it can be difficult to talk about them. I so appreciate the consideration and respect you all are showing me and each other. Not trying to close the conversation by any means. Just wanted to acknowledge the influx of new comments and let you know I am really grateful for them. Please, let's keep talking and hashing out these ideas. They're too important to ignore. God bless each of you. :) Thank you, all of you, who have left comments about this post. Whether or not you agree with me, I value you and appreciate your interaction here. I think it’s really important that we discuss these things, even though it can be difficult to talk about them. I so appreciate the consideration and respect you all are showing me and each other.

Not trying to close the conversation by any means. Just wanted to acknowledge the influx of new comments and let you know I am really grateful for them. Please, let’s keep talking and hashing out these ideas. They’re too important to ignore.

God bless each of you. :)

]]> By: beachmom http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-301 beachmom Sun, 17 Sep 2006 02:21:06 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-301 Meredith, I read your post and felt complete kinship. I, too, am a stay at home Mom (but, alas, I am not as big a trooper as you, and send my kids to preschool!), and am just sick about this war. It was a war that has NOT protected our country but instead made us less safe with less friends in the world to join us for our cause against Islamic extremism. And, it is truly shameful this very week to see a president go to Congress to lobby for TORTURE. Precisely where in the bible does Jesus say it's okay to torture? (Or, pardon me, "alternative interrogation techniques"). Every day our country implicitly supports torture is a day our country loses its moral authority. When many people talk of their comfort of having a "Christian" in the White House, I have to laugh bitterly at the irony. What kind of Christian would wage a war of choice based on lies and defy the Geneva Conventions, I ask? Meanwhile, more conservative pundits have acknowledged that Iraq is lost, and now the only work left to do is to determine if we redeploy to Kuwait or to Kurdistan. And the people who DID harm us are strengthened in the neglected REAL war on terror - Afghanistan. You are right to get involved. It is the only way not to become overcome by cynicism. It is the only way to hope again. I am relieved that your friend's husband got home safely. I am truly humbled by our service men and women who never complain but heed the call to serve. Meredith,

I read your post and felt complete kinship. I, too, am a stay at home Mom (but, alas, I am not as big a trooper as you, and send my kids to preschool!), and am just sick about this war. It was a war that has NOT protected our country but instead made us less safe with less friends in the world to join us for our cause against Islamic extremism. And, it is truly shameful this very week to see a president go to Congress to lobby for TORTURE. Precisely where in the bible does Jesus say it’s okay to torture? (Or, pardon me, “alternative interrogation techniques”). Every day our country implicitly supports torture is a day our country loses its moral authority. When many people talk of their comfort of having a “Christian” in the White House, I have to laugh bitterly at the irony. What kind of Christian would wage a war of choice based on lies and defy the Geneva Conventions, I ask? Meanwhile, more conservative pundits have acknowledged that Iraq is lost, and now the only work left to do is to determine if we redeploy to Kuwait or to Kurdistan. And the people who DID harm us are strengthened in the neglected REAL war on terror - Afghanistan.

You are right to get involved. It is the only way not to become overcome by cynicism. It is the only way to hope again.

I am relieved that your friend’s husband got home safely. I am truly humbled by our service men and women who never complain but heed the call to serve.

]]> By: peacedancer http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-300 peacedancer Sun, 17 Sep 2006 02:02:48 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-300 “And Jesus wept” Amen, sister! “And Jesus wept”

Amen, sister!

]]> By: Catherine http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-299 Catherine Sun, 17 Sep 2006 01:55:46 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-299 Meredith- Thank you for your patriotism. As we now know, the many reasons given to take our young men and women into this war have turned out to be false. We were not attacked by Iraq, there was no imminent danger from Saddam Hussein, they did not have WMD as the administration once claimed, and we went into this ill-advised war with no plan to secure the peace. The last point, in itself, shows a total lack of leadership for which Donald Rumsfeld should be fired immediately. The hundreds of billions of dollars spent in Iraq could have meant so much here at home and around the world, to protect us, to educate our children, to help the poor and the suffering. Instead, we have built up massive debt for our children to pay while we continue to give massive tax cuts to billionaires. And we are less safe than we were before this all started. Today, Iraq is in the middle of a civil war, thousands are dying and there’s no end in sight. I hear people talk of supporting this administration, and I don’t understand how they can feel that way and still refer to themselves as patriots. We must remember that America was not founded for those we elect to lead, but for we, the people. That’s what the framers intended when they helped build this great country of ours. And dissent – questioning our government when we believe the policies are wrong - is the foundation of our democracy. In fact, in the words of Wm. O. Douglas, “it is as true to the character of our democracy as speech itself”. I do agree that we should have gone into Afghanistan. After all, bin Laden attacked us, and it is our duty to protect ourselves and bring him to justice. Sometimes, sadly, military intervention is necessary. But instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan, we diverted our attention to Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9-11, and let the murderer of the 9-11 victims escape. Five years later, and bin Laden is still on the loose. How can that be? So, why are we in Iraq? To bring democracy? That’s something Iraqis must want for themselves as much as we want it for them. And how are Iraqis supposed to believe we’re there to help them achieve it? You don’t ‘win hearts and minds’ by bombing the country you’re trying to help. Honestly, I still can’t resolve that one What’s really lacking in our current policies is diplomacy, and that is a tragic weakness. No conflict can be resolved by talking only to our friends. We must begin talking to our enemies. In my view, what we have today is both a lack of policy and a lack of bravery on the part of our current government. We send our sons and daughters to fight a war, to have them come home without limbs or not at all, but our leaders won’t face our adversaries themselves. It’s a sad and cowardly way for leaders of the greatest country on earth to behave. Now, the President is suggesting we allow the torture of our captives outside the boundaries of the Geneva Conventions. There are so many reasons he is wrong, but I’ll cite three. First, torture does not work. It is a known fact that information from torture victims is dangerously unreliable. Second, the purpose of the Geneva Conventions is to give our own men and women the best chance of fair treatment when they are captured, and third, it’s morally reprehensible. We will only regain our moral standing and achieve peace if we lead by example. As it stands, our example has been very, very poor. Peace, Meredith. Keep fighting the good fight. Meredith-
Thank you for your patriotism. As we now know, the many reasons given to take our young men and women into this war have turned out to be false. We were not attacked by Iraq, there was no imminent danger from Saddam Hussein, they did not have WMD as the administration once claimed, and we went into this ill-advised war with no plan to secure the peace. The last point, in itself, shows a total lack of leadership for which Donald Rumsfeld should be fired immediately. The hundreds of billions of dollars spent in Iraq could have meant so much here at home and around the world, to protect us, to educate our children, to help the poor and the suffering. Instead, we have built up massive debt for our children to pay while we continue to give massive tax cuts to billionaires. And we are less safe than we were before this all started.
Today, Iraq is in the middle of a civil war, thousands are dying and there’s no end in sight. I hear people talk of supporting this administration, and I don’t understand how they can feel that way and still refer to themselves as patriots. We must remember that America was not founded for those we elect to lead, but for we, the people. That’s what the framers intended when they helped build this great country of ours. And dissent – questioning our government when we believe the policies are wrong - is the foundation of our democracy. In fact, in the words of Wm. O. Douglas, “it is as true to the character of our democracy as speech itself”.
I do agree that we should have gone into Afghanistan. After all, bin Laden attacked us, and it is our duty to protect ourselves and bring him to justice. Sometimes, sadly, military intervention is necessary. But instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan, we diverted our attention to Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9-11, and let the murderer of the 9-11 victims escape. Five years later, and bin Laden is still on the loose. How can that be?
So, why are we in Iraq? To bring democracy? That’s something Iraqis must want for themselves as much as we want it for them. And how are Iraqis supposed to believe we’re there to help them achieve it? You don’t ‘win hearts and minds’ by bombing the country you’re trying to help. Honestly, I still can’t resolve that one
What’s really lacking in our current policies is diplomacy, and that is a tragic weakness. No conflict can be resolved by talking only to our friends. We must begin talking to our enemies. In my view, what we have today is both a lack of policy and a lack of bravery on the part of our current government. We send our sons and daughters to fight a war, to have them come home without limbs or not at all, but our leaders won’t face our adversaries themselves. It’s a sad and cowardly way for leaders of the greatest country on earth to behave.
Now, the President is suggesting we allow the torture of our captives outside the boundaries of the Geneva Conventions. There are so many reasons he is wrong, but I’ll cite three. First, torture does not work. It is a known fact that information from torture victims is dangerously unreliable. Second, the purpose of the Geneva Conventions is to give our own men and women the best chance of fair treatment when they are captured, and third, it’s morally reprehensible.
We will only regain our moral standing and achieve peace if we lead by example. As it stands, our example has been very, very poor.

Peace, Meredith. Keep fighting the good fight.

]]> By: polmaven http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-298 polmaven Sun, 17 Sep 2006 01:38:34 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-298 Meredith, I could not agree with you more. We were told about WMD. With weapons inspectors in the country before the decision was made to go to war...why not be sure? We were told about the link between Saddam and Al Queda, and the chemical weapons training being given to the latter by the former. We now know that was not the truth either. We constatntly hear that we must fight "them" over there so we don't have to fight "them" here. Apparently, somehow, in the eyes of our president the innocents in Iraq are not as precious as the innocents in America? I KNOW that isn't the case in the eyes Jesus. You're absolutely right, I believe, that this certainly not a war of which Jesus would approve. We are not there to install democracy. The evidence now is that the current government will most likely become less and less secular, and more and more dictatorial. I have spoken with returned veterans as well. What I hear is not what Momrn2 has heard. I am hearing that the vast majority want us out. They know what's happening and why. They are not unintelligent and naive. They know they are less safe now than before, and will be for as long as we remain. Yes, we are there, and we must now make plans to withdraw. I realize it cannot be done all at once. But we have now learned that Mr. Rumsfeld absolutely refused to make post war plans! He threatened to fire anyone who continued to plan for now. I am also very angry. I do not trust this administration. The President now wants too codify torture, and states it would be a better world if all countries did the same. I am saddened. America was a beacon of hope. We are now mistrusted throughout the world. "And Jesus wept" Meredith,
I could not agree with you more. We were told about WMD. With weapons inspectors in the country before the decision was made to go to war…why not be sure?

We were told about the link between Saddam and Al Queda, and the chemical weapons training being given to the latter by the former. We now know that was not the truth either.

We constatntly hear that we must fight “them” over there so we don’t have to fight “them” here. Apparently, somehow, in the eyes of our president the innocents in Iraq are not as precious as the innocents in America? I KNOW that isn’t the case in the eyes Jesus. You’re absolutely right, I believe, that this certainly not a war of which Jesus would approve.

We are not there to install democracy. The evidence now is that the current government will most likely become less and less secular, and more and more dictatorial.

I have spoken with returned veterans as well. What I hear is not what Momrn2 has heard. I am hearing that the vast majority want us out. They know what’s happening and why. They are not unintelligent and naive. They know they are less safe now than before, and will be for as long as we remain.

Yes, we are there, and we must now make plans to withdraw. I realize it cannot be done all at once. But we have now learned that Mr. Rumsfeld absolutely refused to make post war plans! He threatened to fire anyone who continued to plan for now.

I am also very angry. I do not trust this administration. The President now wants too codify torture, and states it would be a better world if all countries did the same. I am saddened. America was a beacon of hope. We are now mistrusted throughout the world.

“And Jesus wept”

]]> By: momrn2 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-297 momrn2 Sat, 16 Sep 2006 22:50:47 +0000 http://meredithefken.com/blog/2006/09/14/womens-voices/friends-homecoming/#comment-297 My dear friend, I'm afraid I can't stand as strongly with you on this topic. We are at war in what we believed was an attempt to protect our country. If you remember... we were attacked and at the time had reason to believe the threat was still very real. (Actually, it is... how many are there out there attempting to destory us? They admit they HATE us and will do whatever it takes to mutilate us entirely!!!) I'd be curious to talk to your friend that just returned. I also know of someone who just returned recently and shared that the media is painting a picture that is entirely swayed in one direction. Yes, we are at war and people are dying. But it sounds like the majority of the Iraqi's are glad we are there! Have we stopped to consider the thousands of people (children included) who died at the hands of their own country's leadership, sometimes for no apparent reason at all??? And what of the children that were freed from "orphanages" (more like children prisons) over there by our soldiers. They were locked away because their parents refused to follow the country leadership. They were starved, beaten, raped, tortured... to enforce the parents to recount their statements. Now that is what I call completely senseless and cruel!!! (If you want to read more on this I can provide the name of the book where soldiers re-tell this account. I just can't think of it right now.) We are there attempting to assist in freeing them from the insane torture, fear, and demoralizing they lived with every second of every moment. Do I agree with everything that has taken place? No, but do I believe that it has all been a complete mess and in vain? No. When one is protecting themselves and it leads to war... unfortunately, it is ALWAYS a lose/ lose situation for both sides. My dear friend, I’m afraid I can’t stand as strongly with you on this topic. We are at war in what we believed was an attempt to protect our country. If you remember… we were attacked and at the time had reason to believe the threat was still very real. (Actually, it is… how many are there out there attempting to destory us? They admit they HATE us and will do whatever it takes to mutilate us entirely!!!)

I’d be curious to talk to your friend that just returned. I also know of someone who just returned recently and shared that the media is painting a picture that is entirely swayed in one direction.

Yes, we are at war and people are dying. But it sounds like the majority of the Iraqi’s are glad we are there! Have we stopped to consider the thousands of people (children included) who died at the hands of their own country’s leadership, sometimes for no apparent reason at all???

And what of the children that were freed from “orphanages” (more like children prisons) over there by our soldiers. They were locked away because their parents refused to follow the country leadership. They were starved, beaten, raped, tortured… to enforce the parents to recount their statements. Now that is what I call completely senseless and cruel!!! (If you want to read more on this I can provide the name of the book where soldiers re-tell this account. I just can’t think of it right now.)

We are there attempting to assist in freeing them from the insane torture, fear, and demoralizing they lived with every second of every moment.

Do I agree with everything that has taken place? No, but do I believe that it has all been a complete mess and in vain? No.

When one is protecting themselves and it leads to war… unfortunately, it is ALWAYS a lose/ lose situation for both sides.

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